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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I recently got a 2015 Hyundai Veloster Turbo R-spec, 6MT, 89,000 miles. It cranks but does not start. The history of the vehicle is that a feller put aftermarket parts on it, instead of paying it off, as it was then repo'd. The quality of his mods are questionable, but mostly cosmetic. The vehicle sat for a while until a friend of the owner bought it at a local auction. I was told that the turbo had been replaced some time ago, but repair wise, mostly unknown.

As of now, I have:
1) Replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensor
2) Replaced a busted coil pack (more on this later)
3) Scanned all the codes (Also more on this later)

First, the codes (sad face)
1-4) P0301-P0304: cylinder 1,2,3,4 misfire (how can all 4 cylinders be misfiring?)
5) P0011: A Camshaft Position Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance Bank 1
6) P2261: Turbocharger/Supercharger Bypass Valve Mechanical

I/M readiness scan (essentially a "Quick" diagnostic):
(Vehicle was off, so we don't get readings on HCAT, O2 sensor, obviously)
MIS: Good
FUE: Good
CCM:Good
IGN: Spark

I started with the basics,

TL;DR: Everything is good, except for maybe spark

first testing FUEL: I heard the fuel pump click on for 5 seconds when key was turned. I also changed the oil, and found there was fuel mixed in the oil. Could be a red flag right there, but I suspected that all the fuel from not firing off (given codes 1-4) seeped through the piston rings as it sat. So, I think fuel is good.

AIR: As it cranks, it has a distinct pumping sound, as it is amplified from an aftermarket muffler. No hang ups, like a piston ring or whatever--- Nothing abnormal, and seems to induct air fine. I would like to test compression, but I haven't done that yet.

SPARK: One of the coils were JB welded together, as it looks like the previous owner tried to take it apart and broke it(They are expensive too). ALL of the bolts holding on the coil packs were also broken...But I replaced just the one coil pack. Inspected spark plugs and saw they were good, and were also NGK brand. I then put the key to position 2, and since I can't look and crank at the same time, and a spark plug light doesn't fit, using my phone to see, etc, etc--- I just tested the voltage at the coil plug itself and saw 12 volts, so it seems good. (SEEMS, key word...)

Work Done:
1) Replaced Crank Position Sensor
2) Replaced 1 coil pack
3) Cleaned VVT solenoid
4) Inspected BOV
4) changed oil

Again, replaced crank position sensor, but I suspect it could also be the Camshaft position sensor. I also took off the BOV in order to diagnose code No. 6, but was unsure how one can actually tell if it is bad or not. I understand that one is to put there finger over a port and see if the valve dilates, but there was no movement of sorts I could feel/see, or recognizable port, other than the top spigot, or the bottom inlet, which looks like a filter; this connecting to an intercooler. I will also fix the broken bolts for the coil packs, but does not explain crank no start.

Tried to turn over again and re-read codes: Got codes 1-5

What am I missing?
Apologies for the long post as well, I just want to learn and provide as much info as I can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Update: I replaced the camshaft position sensor this time, and noticed there are actually 2. I just replaced the front-most one, and then went back with an ohmmeter to see. The one I took off read 1.68 Ohms. The new one, and other one had no reading, as I assumed this means it's good.

Wanted to almost fire off, but still cranks, no start

Also tested the Coil Packs with an Ohmmeter. It was around 1.3 Ohms for all of them, including the one I replaced. I also checked fuses, and they appeared good. I'd hate to throw more money at something like coils, as the only hope I shown was that one coil trying to fire off. I will update this when I can.
 

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have you performed a compression test as well?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I figured no reading meant the sensor was bad, but the new sensor I got had no reading either. Unless it's bad as well coincidently. It's a 'Mando' brand. If it's bad (or both) then I will have e to wait on parts again.

I will look at doing a comp test tonight, when I have time
 

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Genuine Hyundai parts are the best guarantee you're using the proper parts. Using aftermarket parts for the engine management system is foolhardy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Apologies on no update recently, I thought I had lost the keys somehow, and found them right under the hood when I began further diagnostics:


Ok, so I somehow probed the wrong leads for the camshaft position sensor. Instead of probing terminal 1 and 3, probing terminal 2 and 3 give a resistance value (terminals are labeled on the sensor). Thus, all of the camshaft position sensors I have tested are GOOD.

Since there is a misfire on all cylinders, next on the list is it might be timing related. I took off the valve cover, and noticed that the colored links do not line up on the indents of the phasor cams. It is off by 2 links each, but there is tension between the gears. Specifically, the colored section is "advanced" by 2 links. I rotated the engine over several times in attempt to line them up, and they were still off by that amount.

I did a compression test. Fuel pump relay was pulled. Only cylinder #3 had compression at 80 PSI....

I heard that the tensioner or tensioner guide can fail on these hyundai's. I have also heard that the crankshaft sproket may slip teeth as well.

I would like to get a bore scope to inspect the pistons if the valves were hitting the pistons.

I suspect I may have to take it apart to re-time it, try to fire it off then, or do a top-end rebuild with new valves if they are bent. I will check the gap for the valves.

TL;DR
1)
Camshaft sensors good
2) compression bad, only cylinder 3 held pressure at 80 PSI
3) timing marks on phasor cam and chain is questionable, off by 2 links at TDC
4) Will check valve gap between puck and camshaft lobe


Conclusion up until now:
I may proceed with checking valve gap and if good, I will do the first option (because it's free). If the clearance is bad, I will have to do a top end rebuild, and possibly throw a new chain and tensioner in there as well for the "While I'm in here" effect.
 

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have you taken any photos?
 

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"2) compression bad, only cylinder 3 held pressure at 80 PSI"

Do you mean 3 out of 4 cylinders held absolutely 0 compression? Even bad valves and rings would still allow for some compression if I'm not mistaken, which might indicate that your camshaft or timing belt are shot
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have a photo of the phaser cam that I will try to attach. And yes, only cylinder 3 held pressure. The rest had zero compression after cranking. After checking gap, cylinder 3 also had nominal tolerances when at TDC, where the other valves are out of spec of being too tight (<0.008") or too loose (>0.020). This, combined with being out of time and had no play for a feeler gaiges to slip under it, so I had to go past the marks on the phaser cam alignment just to get a measurement.

I would like to get a bore scope and look at the cylinder to really get a clear picture of if I absolutely need to rebuild a top end. However, I will regardless have to tear it apart, timing-chain wise
Tire Wheel Automotive lighting Automotive tire Motor vehicle

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Tire Wheel Automotive lighting Automotive tire Motor vehicle
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Accidently duplicated the images, but this is how I saw the timing chain relative to the phaser cam gear after rotating the engine a couple of times.

What I will do next:

1) Bore scope the cylinders to analyze valve slap.
2) tear down to re-time the chain and replace tensioner
3) see if it will fire off. If not, head rebuild
 

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I hope you're using a Hyundai repair manual for the work, because your analysis regarding the cam position relative to a chain link does not seem reasonable to me. The chain is driven by the crankshaft and you make no allowance for the chain position vis-a-vis the crankshaft sprocket.

The actual occurrence of a cam chain jumping on a sprocket a tooth or two is very, very rare, and it definitely will show extreme wear on the sprocket teeth before anything like that can happen not to mention the chain itself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It would be nice to have a repair manual, but just timing chains in general, when one spins the crankshaft on the crankshaft bolts and eventually, the colored chain sections should line up on the indents of the camshafts (images showing an orange/yellow dot), while the camshaft marks are laser etched, enabling positioning of them parallel to each other.

Testing valve gap at TDC was:

Exhaust: cylinder 1, 3
Intake: cylinder 1,2

Turn crankshaft pull 1 revolution or 360 degrees:

Exhaust: cylinder 2 , 4
Intake: cylinder 3, 4

When doing this, the gap was again, too tight, or too loose anyhow, aside from cylinder #3

Shouldn't the color sections line up to the phaser cam indent? If so, how does one explain the chain being off by 2 links?

What do you mean about the allowance for the chain position relative to the crankshaft? Sure, there a little slack which is normal, but if the tensioner is faulty, there more play than normal at high rpm/under load that may be suspect.

Kindly enlighten me on what you mean
 

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What do you mean about the allowance for the chain position relative to the crankshaft? Sure, there a little slack which is normal, but if the tensioner is faulty, there more play than normal at high rpm/under load that may be suspect.

Kindly enlighten me on what you mean
How can you know if the chain is in the correct timing position on the crankshaft sprocket, in view of your assumption that it is incorrect on the camshaft sprocket.
 

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this one is for the non turbo but i cant imagine the turbo being much if at all different.

 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I see what your saying.

I don't necessarily think it is the chain on the crankshaft sprocket itself, and it's literal position, but out of time in it's totality.

Unfortunately, I don't know the position of the chain relative to the crankshaft sprocket. The only way I would know is if I take everything off as if I were doing a water pump. Then, I could see the sprocket. I also checked the pulley(attached to the sprocket for accessory belts), which appears to have a "perpendicular" ⟂ symbol, and a couple other service/assembly marks. This, being 35-45 degrees relative of TDC/ being flat. However, it's something I wouldn't want to rely upon, rather wanting to see the sprocket itself. In other words, when the phaser cam's are lined up, the pulley itself wasn't "perpendicular".

Also, when I was checking the valve gap, I couldn't fit a feeler gauge under some of the valves at the correct specs, such as at TDC and Ø360 off the crank pulley. I had to go past the correct positions to obtain a data point.

There was also no compression on 3 of the 4 cylinders. There was also no "build up" pressure between the cycles.

How does an engine have compression on 1 cylinder?
How does an engine not have proper valve clearances on any of the right positions (except # 3)? (such as a bent valve)
How does the timing mark on the chain line up relative to the phaser cam?

These are the questions I am asking myself in assessing that it could be timing related.

This is why I want to use a borescope to check if there is valve slap on the pistons, in order to assess collateral damage and how to proceed. Or what I can get away with re-timing it, and replacing what's there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I don't want to sound disrespectful at all, but if there is a way to see the crank sprocket that doesn't involve taking it apart, I would like to know. It would help eliminate where the timing is at relative to where it matters.
 

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