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I have a 2013 VT 6 speed manual with about 64000 miles on it. I have had it for a little over a year now and I am the third (maybe fourth) owner.

I didn't realize it when I bought it (first manual, second car) but it has issues shifting, especially at high rpm. This might be a long post, but I am trying to provide as much info as possible.

I finally brought it to a shop, they said it needs a new tranny. $2500 dollars. I took it to another shop and they said same thing but dude was kinda shady. I had a fairly trustworthy independent mechanic that told me a while back he thought it was most likely the clutch, but said to wait until it really went out. Anyways, the first place I recently brought it to changed the fluid twice and it didn't really help at all. The old fluid was fairly dark and had tiny, fine, glittery metal particles in it, I had changed it once myself within the last year.

So, I am not convinced its the tranny, but I simply don't know. Here's why I am not convinced.

Before I just got the fluid changed, it seemed to only be really bad from first to second, to third, sometimes to fourth. Again, mostly at high rpm under high load. The reason I don't know if it's the clutch system or the tranny is because of a few reasons.

For one, I DON'T think the clutch is slipping. The car accelerates fine, and if I am on level ground not moving, put it in first and rev it until redline, the car does not move at all. However, when I am driving normally, I noticed that if I push the clutch pedal all the way in, the RPMs don't move at all. They only slightly go down exactly with the car as it engine brakes. I am currently under the impression that even if the car is in gear, when pushing the clutch all the way down, and off the throttle completely, the rps should still die down to rpm. Again, mine doesn't move at all.

HOWEVER, if I clutch in, hold it for even a few seconds rpms don't move. As soon as I pull it into neutral, rpms die down how they normally should. So to me, this means that there is still some load being transferred from engine into tranny, even with clutch all the way in. I know this would make the synchros work harder than they should, which could make things even worse.

Another weird thing is that when going from first to second, even if I shift at around 3000 rpm, not under high load, the shifter just seems like it doesn't want to let me even shift out of first gear. I can clutch in for even two or three seconds and I pull it from first to second, it gets stuck for a moment coming out of first, and again gets stuck and is very notchy going into second.

After the recent fluid change, it has grinded once or twice while shifting into reverse from standstill. I have had it completely lock me out of going into fourth after a redline pull in third. It has literally locked me out of fourth like it doesn't even exist for a solid ten seconds, the whole time i am sitting in neutral, double clutching, rpm all the way back down to like 1500 and then eventually when I blip the throttle it will very reluctantly go into fourth but be very notchy. Also, I noticed that it seems to be notchy and bad for all gears, but sometimes in fourth and up, it will fall right out of gear and not really have an issue going into the next gear.

I also just bled the clutch and it didn't help really at all.

SO my question is do any of you think that I have some sort of clutch issue or is it just the synchros/tranny? Could it be both at this point? I know this post is extremely long but there are a lot of details to get the whole story.

TL;DR: My car shifts really notchy, and sometimes grinds and completely locks me out of up shifting when shifting at high rpm. Just had fluid changed twice to flush everything out, also bled the clutch and it didn't help. Grinded a couple times going into reverse from standstill after fluid change. Car is extremely notchy/hard to shift through all gears, even up into 5th gear. Double clutching doesn't really make a noticeable difference anymore. Even when driving normally, I have to basically force it OUT of 1st when shifting into 2nd. However, while driving I can clutch in all the way while car is still in gear and the rpms don't drop at all, they just behave as if I were engine braking...UNTIL I pull it into neutral (with clutch still all the way in) THEN the rpms fall how they normally should. Clutch is probably not slipping though because acceleration is fine and I can rev to redline on flat ground in 1st gear with clutch in and car doesn't move at all. So do you think I have clutch issue, synchro/tranny issue, or both?
 

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Yeah, I think you have a clutch problem, and I also think the bleeding activity has been a failure. I think you clutch is not disengaging properly when you depress the clutch.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, I think you have a clutch problem, and I also think the bleeding activity has been a failure. I think you clutch is not disengaging properly when you depress the clutch.
Thanks for responding. So I will try bleeding again, but besides that, is there anything else I can try to fix the issue without dropping the tranny? Would the master cylinder be going bad if I cant see any leaks and the pedal doesn't stick?
 

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Can you verify what transmission fluid was installed? Some manual trannys take ATF, but the Veloster is gear oil. I ask because many years ago a garage changed out my tranny fluid (old Ford Ranger, my manual tranny used ATF) and put in gear oil. I had no end of problems. Changed back to ATF, all was fine. Not sure how well our tranny would fare with incorrect fluid, might have something to do with the notchiness
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Can you verify what transmission fluid was installed? Some manual trannys take ATF, but the Veloster is gear oil. I ask because many years ago a garage changed out my tranny fluid (old Ford Ranger, my manual tranny used ATF) and put in gear oil. I had no end of problems. Changed back to ATF, all was fine. Not sure how well our tranny would fare with incorrect fluid, might have something to do with the notchiness
Yeah Redline MT85 so I don't think thats the issue unfortunately
 

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Thanks for responding. So I will try bleeding again, but besides that, is there anything else I can try to fix the issue without dropping the tranny? Would the master cylinder be going bad if I cant see any leaks and the pedal doesn't stick?
If there is no evidence of leaking, the slave is not leaking, the master is at the pedal. A sticking pedal should not prohibit clutch disengagement, but a sticking pedal could indicate a real problem.
I think it's too early to talk about removing the transmission.

Have you tried to push the clutch pedal "in" with your hand?
What does it feel like? Can you feel the bearing engage the pressure plate? Can you feel the pressure plate resistance? Is there any feeling of free play?
All these are important questions to answer when dealing with problems like you are having.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If there is no evidence of leaking, the slave is not leaking, the master is at the pedal. A sticking pedal should not prohibit clutch disengagement, but a sticking pedal could indicate a real problem.
I think it's too early to talk about removing the transmission.

Have you tried to push the clutch pedal "in" with your hand?
What does it feel like? Can you feel the bearing engage the pressure plate? Can you feel the pressure plate resistance? Is there any feeling of free play?
All these are important questions to answer when dealing with problems like you are having.
I bled the clutch again today and again no change. i also drained a little bit of fluid and poured in some additive so we will see if it helps. As far as how the clutch feels...I tried pushing it with my hand and i don't really know what other clutches feel like but it seems okay. It has a very small "dead zone" until the fluid starts moving in the master cylinder and from that point it just feels like a constant resistance until its all the way in. I suppose I can feel the pressure plate resistance as I am pushing it in but there doesn't seem to be a distinct feeling of the bearing engaging the plate. I just push it in and then there is constant resistance.
 

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Here, this guy has some of the same kind of clutch problems.

 

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Discussion Starter #9
Here, this guy has some of the same kind of clutch problems.

I greatly appreciate your help but my clutch doesn't ever stick to the floor. The only thing that I would consider abnormal with my clutch is that it possibly doesn't disengage all the way but only sometimes? Other than that it may very well just be the tranny going out. I just can't imagine that the entire thing would be bad with only 64000 miles...
 

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That was a long question and I have a long answer for you. Lol.


To me personally it sounds like the transmission and probably the clutch as well. For a few reasons I’ll try to explain. One is shifting at redline every time is very hard on our transmissions. Especially if it is your first manual. You should ideally rev match to a certain extent when driving for performance and redline shifting actually loses performance. A few of the things you describe fit what my 2013 NA was doing. Mainly when shifting from 2-3 at high RPM. I know in my case it was the synchronizers going out because I shifted at redline a few times too quickly for it to mesh and started messing up the synchro. i felt it the day I did it. The longer I drove it the worse it got.

What you describe as ‘pushing the clutch in while driving normally and the rpm drops very little’ can actually be normal on Velosters. I know the NA has software to keep throttle engaged and rpms up to make shifts easier. That’s why when moving it to neutral it drops rpms. The system detects shift and releases throttle.

Also, when you say you “put it in first and rev to redline, the car doesn’t move at all”. Are you meaning that from a dead stop you put it in first and rev to redline then release the clutch and it doesn’t move? If that is what you mean then you are also destroying your clutch. The stock clutch and pressure plate doesn’t have near enough clamping force to engage from a stop at redline. Trying that will quickly overheat the clutch disc and heavily glaze it. Which will create more shifting problems.

What you describe where a redline pull in third will lock you completely out of fourth is a synchro issue. If your synchros are working properly once you pull away from a stop and are accelerating NORMALLY you should be able to apply light pressure against the shifter and let off the gas and it will pop out of gear without pressing the clutch. You can then rev the engine to slightly above next gear rpm, release throttle and ease the shifter towards next gear and it will engage the gear without the clutch. That is called float shifting or slip shifting. Whichever you prefer. Now doing that does indeed increase the wear on your synchros. Just give that as an example of properly working synchros.

In my case, I changed the transmission out and haven’t had any problems shifting since.
 

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64000 miles, have you changed the trans fluid? it was due at 60000.
 

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64000 miles, have you changed the trans fluid? it was due at 60000.
His original post states it has been changed three times. Twice by a transmission shop and once by him. But Hyundai recommends changing manual trans fluid at 75k miles. Or rather the email I’ve seen was from Hyundai of Canada which stated 120,000KM.
 

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Thanks for that. I missed it in my reread. doing too much at once.

and the 75K thing is interesting. in my 2014 turbo manual it shows at 60k for "severe" driving. when i looked it up online it shows 75k now.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
That was a long question and I have a long answer for you. Lol.


To me personally it sounds like the transmission and probably the clutch as well. For a few reasons I’ll try to explain. One is shifting at redline every time is very hard on our transmissions. Especially if it is your first manual. You should ideally rev match to a certain extent when driving for performance and redline shifting actually loses performance. A few of the things you describe fit what my 2013 NA was doing. Mainly when shifting from 2-3 at high RPM. I know in my case it was the synchronizers going out because I shifted at redline a few times too quickly for it to mesh and started messing up the synchro. i felt it the day I did it. The longer I drove it the worse it got.

What you describe as ‘pushing the clutch in while driving normally and the rpm drops very little’ can actually be normal on Velosters. I know the NA has software to keep throttle engaged and rpms up to make shifts easier. That’s why when moving it to neutral it drops rpms. The system detects shift and releases throttle.

Also, when you say you “put it in first and rev to redline, the car doesn’t move at all”. Are you meaning that from a dead stop you put it in first and rev to redline then release the clutch and it doesn’t move? If that is what you mean then you are also destroying your clutch. The stock clutch and pressure plate doesn’t have near enough clamping force to engage from a stop at redline. Trying that will quickly overheat the clutch disc and heavily glaze it. Which will create more shifting problems.

What you describe where a redline pull in third will lock you completely out of fourth is a synchro issue. If your synchros are working properly once you pull away from a stop and are accelerating NORMALLY you should be able to apply light pressure against the shifter and let off the gas and it will pop out of gear without pressing the clutch. You can then rev the engine to slightly above next gear rpm, release throttle and ease the shifter towards next gear and it will engage the gear without the clutch. That is called float shifting or slip shifting. Whichever you prefer. Now doing that does indeed increase the wear on your synchros. Just give that as an example of properly working synchros.

In my case, I changed the transmission out and haven’t had any problems shifting since.
Thanks for the reply. To answer a couple of your questions...When doing the rev to redline in first gear thing, it is while I am at a dead stop and holding clutch in. I never let the clutch out. I just read online that this was a test you could do to see if you have any clutch drag. Basically if you are not moving and rev while in first with clutch held in, then you start to move, you have clutch drag. Which I don't seem to have because the car doesn't move. Like I said, I don't let the clutch out at all, until rpm are back at idle.

As far as the software holding the rpm... I knew that the VT had some sort of software like this, but I thought it was more of a 'rev hang' type of deal. I do have my upper clutch switch unplugged to eradicate the rev hang. However, what I am saying is when im driving, I can let off the gas and push the clutch all the way in while its still in gear. The rpms dont move at all, no matter how long I have been holding in the clutch. That doesn't seem normal to me. The only thing I noticed this morning was that if the car is above 3K rpm, the rpms dont move when clutch is pushed in. However, if the car is below 3K rpm then the rpms will die how I believe they normally should when pushing in the clutch and shift lever still in gear.

Also, I know you said that it sounds more like a synchro issue, but what are the odds that every synchro has issues, in a 64000 mile tranny? I have done at least two or three highway pulls where even shifting into 5th gear has issues. But again, its only when im at high rpm. I can flawlessly pull the shift lever out of gear without using the clutch, like you described. Although I dont think I have tired this while shifting out of first or second, I'll try later today.

Another thing I want to mention is that the past few days I have started to notice that a few times (noticed most when shifting into fourth gear) I will have the clutch all the way in, and shift like I normally would, but if the rpms are between 4K and 5K, I can actually feel a slight load being applied to the tranny right when it goes into the next gear. To make myself clear, I shift into the next gear. And as its going in it fells like how it would be if you shifted too slow and let off the clutch while rpms were a little too low for that gear and speed. The car sort of lurches forward and the rpms kick up ever so slightly. BUT it does this with the clutch still pressed all the way in. Sounds like a disengagement issue right..?

Again, thanks to everybody commenting...I am just trying to provide as much info as possible and see what everybody thinks before I go spend a couple thousand dollars or more on a car that I bought for $8K
 

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I think you said it started with just the lower gears and progressed to be the upper ones as well. Which sounds much more like synchros than anything else. My guess is the transmission is needing replaced or rebuilt and if doing that the couple hundred more for a clutch at the same time just makes sense.

What rpm are you shifting at when you say redline? Are you hitting the rev limiter? If so you are likely reducing your performance. Here is a graph of torque and HP on your motor as well as a link that breaks it down by each 100 rpm. Ideally you want to stay in your torque power band as long as possible and torque on your engine falls heavily after 5k rpm. Max torque is 195ft-lb @ 4500 rpm and max hp is 201hp @ 6000 rpm
64321CC7-0A31-48EB-953F-D3C8498A873A.jpeg

 

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Discussion Starter #19
UPDATE:
So last weekend I got around to replacing the clutch...I think its safe to say I found the problem!
132550

The springs in the OEM flywheel were also shot, so I replaced it with an aluminum one. So far I have put on about 70 miles and the shifts are buttery smooth now! Thanks to everyone for the help.
 

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yup... that's about right.

where did you get the standard flywheel from and what clutch did you pair it with? did you get it from one of the veloster vendors?
 
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