My previous German Opel hot hatch did not have a limited slip diff and it had a torsion beam rear axle, as does the current Polo GTI. If there is a problem with the rear end of US Velosters is down to inadequate damping, but that's not an issue with Australian Velosters because of firmer springs and dampers. Hyundai and many other car makers re-tune their cars softer for the US market because it seems that's how American drivers like them.
I once had a 2.4 litre Nissan Bluebird front wheel drive with a limited slip diff, and when it struggled for traction it almost understeered off the road, which is what you would expect. That's why Ford and Volkswagen and others have fitted variations of traction control rather than a crude lsd; the current Golf brakes the spinning wheel and re-directs a small amount of power to the non-spinning wheel. My Opel had the same thing. In extreme it throttled total power down.
I go back to my original point: if you want a Golf GTI then buy one. And watch it get towed to the dealer when it breaks down, as it will. Or pay for four hours labour to change a headlight globe (flat rate - four hours for the job). If you don't want to pay $500 for a new headlight globe or spend half a day doing it yourself, buy a Hyundai which is softer to drive but still quite competent (at least with Australian or European spec suspension).
For some reason i feel better about owning an NA V after reading this thread......
Adding IRS or an LSD isnt going to automatically make the car any better. If anything, they will add cost and weight, two things that the VT does better then its competition.
Those MT pics are interesting. I dont see the performance of the cars being compared, but HP, interior room, etc.
A loaded GTI or ST here in Canada is pushing $40K. Sure they will perform much better then the VT, but for that kind of money, Im buying a WRX or another Genesis to drive on the odd days of the week.
I think the Fiesta ST will be a much closer rival to the VT then any of the others.
I also find it interesting that the few owners of the VT and even the V who have tracked the cars dont really complain about them and what they lack.
The test drive tire kickers, keyboard warriors and trolls sure do though.
Last edited by MTD; 11-28-2012 at 08:47 PM.
There is only JUST so much available traction for cornering and acceleration, and when the same end of the car is attempting BOTH jobs simultaneously..... if you are already at/near the limit of what the car can manage and start spinning the inside tire, the computer's sudden "E-diff application" usually results in the opposite of "snap oversteer" - that is, sudden, uncontrollable understeer, and you wipe-out a cone-wall.....
Give me a REAL LSD any day, and twice on Tuesday's for a Twofer.
Parfois, on fait pas semblant!
What my Veloster has done for me is spin the inside wheel in the wet when I accelerated briskly when turning at an intersection, and it felt crude compared to the German car I had previously. But that's really not a major issue for me because it does many things better than that German car.
Still get back to my original point. If you really, really, really want a hot hatch with limited slip diff (is one made?) then buy one. I don't know if any manufacturer would put a crude lsd on a proper hot hatch anyway.
I have this LSD in my "other car" and would NEVER be without it when whp levels are above 200. Many enthusiasts swear by a Quaife but the OEM helic gear LSD I have is simply amazing at controllling the front wheels at moderate throttle angle. However, it doesn't work so well at WOT since I can spin the tires well into 4th gear if I put my foot to the wood...
But all in all the handling improvement (under throttle) with the LSD as compared to an open diff are night and day in my book.
E-Diffs are essentially cobbled-in code alongside the Traction and Stability-control programs, that grab an electronic-fistful of brake via the ABS system at the most-inopportune time possible in the middle of a spirited drive.
Just so we're clear here:
And that is exactly what you're going to get with a pricepoint car, if they do not install a mechanical diff.
Last edited by BluMeanie; 11-28-2012 at 11:51 PM.
Parfois, on fait pas semblant!
Who said I owned an Audi? It was an Opel and it had pretty decent handling.
In any case you need an attitude transplant. I owned a car which included braking the spinning wheel as well as transferring load to the non-spinning wheel and it drove brilliantly, especially in slippery conditions. I am a proper driver who also rides and used to race motorcyles, and I also do testing (but not racing) of racing cars on racing circuits. Probably I have the smoothness and control honed by real fair-dinkum racing and rarely provoke wheelspinning loss of traction, which is just a sign of clumsy driving.
What is it with you and limited slip diffs anyway? If I approached racing car setup with the answer (lsd) I would never get anywhere! It's approached with 'what's the problem' and 'the possible solution is....'.
These diffs prevent loss of traction and eliminate the understeer that would otherwise occur with a crude mechanical limited slip diff on a front wheel drive.
Go back from whence you came 'cause everyone is bored with your attitude. The Veloster is %^&* because it doesn't have an LSD! We have other and more important priorities.
Last edited by cbrmale; 11-29-2012 at 04:10 AM.
Autocar road test of the Astra VXR (Vauxhall badged OPC) released in May this year with a Drexler LSD:
Any drawbacks to the Astra hot hatch?
Sadly, yes. That aggressive limited-slip diff causes an awful lot of torque steer, to the point where it inhibits confidence during overtakes on B-roads – you worry that you’ll be pulled towards either the car you’re overtaking or dragged into the scenery.
It doesn't seem to work terribly well. That's hilarious, aint it?
I merely noted that I disagreed with you, and expressed my opinion about E-Diffs, I didn't daterape then glass your Mother.
What is with YOU about the LSD? Bad flashback?
You might note that, this is only my THIRD post on this subject (with the bulk of those having to deal with YOU), and Final post replying to anything you have to say: consider yourself Blacked Out.
Good Day, Sir.
Last edited by BluMeanie; 12-03-2012 at 08:50 PM.
Parfois, on fait pas semblant!
You don't know the difference between electronic control of the diff (braking the spinning wheel and throttling back the engine) with torque vectoring (transferring a proportion of the torque to the unladen wheel variable on steering lock - used by many manufacturers but primarily a Japanese thing). Torque vectoring also includes braking the spinning wheel and throttling back the engine.
I once owned a front wheel drive with a limited slip diff and it was terrible. Very bad understeer under marginal traction, as you would expect. This was in the days before electronic control of the diff or torque vectoring was available, so it was the best they could do at the time. But it was dreadful.
-Implying you have a different engineAS FOR THE NA V COMMENT, this is not in the NA V section, in no way shape or form would I consider that car sporty minus the looks. That comment is like a rabbit driver walking in on a GTI conversation and going, my car looks sporty but isn't a hot hatch. No your car is an attractive people mover.............and not even the subject of the conversation!
-Implying me downsizing a super charger or turbo on my NA wouldn't be faster.
-Implying the turbo is that much faster.